Cow was an inspiration.
-
Sorry Jacob, Simon, everyone else.
It seems that the Cow saves were mass demoted. we noticed them all leave way too fast all at once. If this is the case I feel that it was an incorrrect decision. You gave into some angry element. What else can I say. The "Cow" inspired rapid and massive creative save making. people made a ton of crazy machines wicked fast and were having soo much fun. Is that not why we are here? It would have passed on its own. I just can't believe this has happened. the system is supposed to be evolutionary. front page is VOTED ON. WE as users decided to vote that stuff. I saw nothing innapropriate or derogatory in any of the front page saves. nothing in any of those cow save that is not in any number of non cow saves.
I am not angy soo much as disappointed.
An explanation is absolutely requested.
Thank you for your time
Sincerely
Sandwichlizard
Edited once by Sandwichlizard. Last: 20th Apr 2016 -
Moo
I was gone all day today, and yesterday I spent all day after getting home working on an ARG.
Seeing all these cow saves pleases me, but it would have been better if they were potatoes. Anyway, trends like these have to do some time to get back to the real saves :). This trend might have been influenced by another moderator :P (kind of like how we created that horse craze so long ago)Edited once by jacob1. Last: 20th Apr 2016 -
No offense but "real save" what is that exactly? every save on the server is bull shit. none of this is real.
no. it was natural. it happened all by itself. If it was A moderator thing then it is a creul joke to yank peoples saves. I used some cool tech on the COWpiler. no way I can get another save to replace it. it looks borining now that is was seen working on a Cow. it was solid with 24 votes near the top of fp and I have never seen anything like it on powder before. then bam gone with all the rest just cause it had a cow. not cool at all. why vote, the mods can just decide what is going to be on front page with a whim.
Its wrong. the COMMUNITY decided and the powers just tossed their votes and did what they wanted. absolute crap!
I hate hypocracy. the voting system is supposed to work autonomously. It is supported and defended. I have defended it publicly. Now I feel screwed. we can vote, as long as there are no cows in the save. any other whimsical bull shit censorship I should know about? its soo chicken shit to not let it play out on its own. 2 days and theres a panic. geez.
Honestly the only thing that can be done is a sincere appology from whoever decided to pull the plug. it cannot be undone but should not be done like this if ever again. 2 days. how about 7 my save should have made it. yes I am a bit pissed. your response did not help at all.
Edited 2 times by Sandwichlizard. Last: 20th Apr 2016 -
I can't tell how serious you are? You seemed slightly angry at first but I treated it as a joke since I hadn't actually seen any *good* cow saves on front page that were demoted. It was just stuff like this:1972900View Save 1972900
Your cowpiler is a little more interesting than the rest, I didn't see it until now because I was only looking at the saves that got reported while I was gone (someone reported a bunch for cow spam). Perhaps it does deserve front page, but with all the controversy / downvotes all the cow saves were getting, i'm not sure people want it back.
The reason I suggested mods might have had something to do with the cows is because of some indirect comments Catelite mentioned on IRC. A few days ago she featured a save called "nothing", which was entirely empty, on the top of front page. I demoted it when I got home and the next day she mentioned something about how the 'nothing' saves prevent cow outbreaks. And then she implied she had involvement later. Maybe it is true that the community upvoted all the saves then, I was just looking at the small amount of evidence I had.
I couldn't figure out who demoted the cow saves either. I asked the other active mods on IRC (boxmein, jacksonmj, cracker64) and they didn't do it, so it was probably Lockheedmartin or Catelite (or Simon even? dunno.). The cows were clearly causing a lot of controversy though, so I can see why the other mods would do it. Just look at the number of downvotes and reports each one got, the cow save you still have on front page is actually doing pretty well with only 10 downvotes. It looks like people stopped downvoting once all the other cows went away.
We don't "censor" stuff, besides a few things that we always mention. Deco art sometimes gets demoted, but recently we've all agreed not to just demote every art save, like we used to (I didn't really like the policy where a whole group of saves was always demoted when people voted it). I demoted a save for being CGI art recently. Sometimes if a save is kind of stupid and has a lot of downvotes, i'll also demote it, but that happens rarely.
I always leave comments when demoting saves, to prevent stuff like this. You can see me doing that here. It sucks when your stuff gets demoted for no reason, or just because it has a cow in it. So i'm sorry that happened. But I didn't have any involvement in demoting it and i'm not sure it would be right to put the save back at this point either. Maybe you can try using something besides a cow, which people might downvote less. Or work on a decowpiler, since that is the obvious thing missing from your save. -
Thank you jacob1. I did not mean to blame you specifically, just not sure who to address. No, putting it back now is no good. the whole natural process has been disrupted by some whinny twit. People need to understand how the system works. one can always rename a save and reupload for a fresh start when a current trend is over. I am absolutely sure someone complained because there non cow save was not getting attention. there were comments on some of the cow saves about just that. giving into that behavior is something the mods should be very careful of.
lets hope future memes dont get squashed and fun can play out a bit. people are fickle and fads die hard. don't try to engineer it soo much in the future. 2 days is not an epidemic. next time the mods should not panic, reasure the complaining player that it will settle down in a few days, and let it play out and see. IF it becomes a real problem then address it.
Last bit. What if front page had 18 laser saves up? would that be laser spam? would they be mass demoted because someone could not get their Cow save on fp? how about optical illusions. if we find ourself with an optical illusion trend are the mods going to put a stop to that nonsense? do you see where I am going here?
Why make a decowpiler? it would be instanly demoted anyway. cows are now taboo.
I am done now. Thanks for reading. I can move on now that I have said my peace.
Edited 3 times by Sandwichlizard. Last: 20th Apr 2016 -
I did not list reasons on the demoted saves because of the mass number involved. I have well over 7+ unique saves reported from the front page that ranged from non-sense of people false reporting to actual concerns of the front page being spammed. That total doesn't include the same save being reported multiple times. Then we had people spamming the comments and tags section of those saves.
After that, I noticed a couple people bandwagoning multiple saves for the same genre. Put it simple, there wasn't a fair distribution of saves between people because at least two people monopolized the area. The reality is the front page is not a right, rather a privilege at that point. It's to showcase the range of community saves, rather than being selfish in a way that prevents other people/areas of skills being presented.
You're thinking it wasn't a big deal, but it was a huge deal to those who were affected by the fact there was a monopolization of the front page by one genre and a couple users. I had to keep demoting saves after I demoted the first cycle because the area caused a huge fuss of "pro-cow" and "anti-cow" movements. Yeah sure it's fun for a bit, but again once it starts covering the showcase where the gems are shown it becomes a real issue. For some stats, I sifted through at least fifteen (15) saves until the whole thing was done, deleted too many tags and comments to count.
Due to considerable amount of complaints and incidents, we've recently been looking into revamping the current front page system. It has been apparent there is no general consensus of what the front page quality should be, so thus we may look into something that may use more metrics or completely throws out the idea of a common/global selection of front page saves. Again it's in the design process of what exactly should it be. As of now it seems like this incident has proven the current system has lost its original desired purpose.
Edited once by Lockheedmartin. Last: 21st Apr 2016 -
Well I thought I was done.
My point is it would have sorted it self out. It most certainly was not monopolization by a couple of users. I have 27, 27, 36 votes for 3 of the cow saves. that is not a couple of users. that is a normal sized GROUP of COMMUNITY members stating there opinion by VOTING. the save owners did not decide to put them on front page. How dare you try and say my thinkink was incorrect. it was a huge deal to the people whos first front page save you squashed. your thinking is flawed not mine. everyone is affected by the same rules for front page. no matter how it works, it is fair unless tampered with. That is what I have been defending for the past 2 years essentially. I understand that there are good reasons to demote saves and you need that control. This was not one of those reasons. like I said, no way if there were 17 laser saves on fp you would have mass demoted them. this has nothing to do with monopolization.
as a side note I think you have something against me because i am on a lot. you left a copy of flappy bird with a cow stuck on it but demoted my original save where the cow was the only copied part. it was inconsistant. arbitrary. unfair. unnecissary. and wrong. your argument of monopolization is flawed because it ignores the fact that the saves got voted. A LOT. essentially hundreds of people monopolized front page. It worked exactly as it should. but it got tampered with. so now you really dont know what would have happened if you had left it alone. You did not give the system a chance to work and now you claim it failed. If you had let it be we could have seen a great deal about how the FP/voting system really works under pressure. you have no imperical data to back you up. You contaminated the experiment if you will.
What exactly is a "fair distribution of saves"? the distribution is constantly ebbing and flowing.
"people bandwagoning multiple saves for the same genre" its called a trend.
"I had to keep demoting saves after I demoted the first cycle because the area caused a huge fuss of "pro-cow" and "anti-cow" movements" - Flawed argument. it assumes you HAD to demote the first cycle. not true.
"Yeah sure it's fun for a bit, but again once it starts covering the showcase where the gems are shown it becomes a real issue" - Flawed arguement. 1. what qualifyes as a gem? subjective, thats why we vote. 2. I have been playing for 1100 days. people cant wait 2-3 days for a trend to settle down? it would have got old and people would have stopped voting them up. 3. how is that a real issue. there are occasional times when fp has many saves that many people consider not so good. but someone likes them so its OK. they just dont happen to be of the same genre at the same time but they do clog fp a bit. no one is there mass demoting those saves, and there should not be. It is what it is. I have uploaded awesome work and had it fail to get noticed, reupload in a couple month under a new name, have it fail again, try again in a week and see if there is an audience. thats the real crux here actually, your judging the audience. I digress, I shall continue. I have a bunch of saves I think are awesome but I have given up on. for the record I have over 200 published saves, most with less than 10 votes. Including unpublished work I have over 400 on the server and about 50 local. No one is going to make 10 saves and get 7 on fp maybe 1 if your lucky and worked hard.
the problem here is the lack of patience by the complaining users. it takes hard work and perceverence most of the time.. however, some times my hard work fails to succeed also. thats just how it is. just like real life people. sometimes you get lucky and you win a prize for no reason. sometimes hard work does NOT payoff.
you will never fix that. its part of the human condition.
once again it does not matter if fp is heavily trending. it should fade naturally and it is what the community that voted for. stop dancing around it. you made an error. own it and appologize to the people you stripped ther moment of fame away from I have had tons but those people you claim to care about.... your argument does not consider their feelings. only the ones who could not wait or be bothered to promote their own work which they supposedly think is really good. Your opinion and sympathy is completely one sided. Great way to encourage the community dude. appologize for tampering with the voting system. you discounted the opinions of everyone who was for the projects because they did not fill your inbox with crap and complaints. they just voted UP. the negative element makes the most noise. you listened to the negative element and ignored the positive. sounds like nothing to do with the fp system, just your opinion of what should be. you had a few complaints to back you up.
When You mass demoted with no explanation. You ruined the fun(this is a TOY right?), you caused the creation of the 2 factions, you caused a stir. Now You are using it as an excuse to change the system. you should get into american politics. You sir have an agenda.
Honestly I dont want to see another comment on this thread unless it is a TPT official making a public and sincere apology. without trying to tell me I am wrong. I know I am right, I am just, I can smell hypocracy from a mile away.
Edited once by Sandwichlizard. Last: 21st Apr 2016 -
I think you need to calm down a little bit, this isn't the end of the world, it isn't the end of someone's life, it isn't the end of this sentence yet, it isn't even the end of powder toy.
I think if you take a step back and look at what this is about, it isn't a problem. A group of creations was removed from a showcase listing on a small open source community project.
Are you right? Is Lockheed a tyrant? Does it even matter?
Please everyone calm down, cows will still be here tomorrow. -
I dont even know what to say anymore. your right its just a game. why didn't lockheedmartin say that to the complainers in the first place. the cow saves are of no lesser quality than any standard fare on TPT.
this is not about cows. it is about fairness.
@lockheedmartin. you made angry people smile angrily and made happy people sad. Using logic to justify your position is not going to change that.
I am going to be done now and hope for that apology to the community or even a guarantee that you wont do that again.. Generally i like you lockheedmartin, however I just feel your wrong on this issue.
please do not try and deflect this back at me. if you dont want to apologize then don't, but please stop trying to convince me why you should not have to. you made people feel bad because other people felt bad. good night. tomorrow is another day.
